NAPT Museletter, Volume XXIV, Number 1, March 2003

The Youngest Pioneer: Sherry Reiter, NAPT Keynote Speaker

Interview by Peggy Osna Heller

Sherry Reiter, PhD

POH: You are the youngest pioneer in the poetry therapy community. Can you tell us a bit of your long history in the field?

SR: Am I the youngest pioneer? Actually, I think of each person who sets out in this field as the youngest pioneer. This is a frontier that is only being discovered now; hospitals and clinics are finally starting to employ poetry therapists. Schools and community centers and libraries are incorporating poetry therapy into their programs. They may not like the word "therapy," but administrators are getting excited about the impact of poetry for "growth," for "wellness," "for spirituality" and in some places, there is unabashed enthusiasm for "poetry therapy." In 1973, when I began, it was a new concept and raised some eyebrows. I knocked on many closed doors to "market" poetry therapy and tried to introduce it to colleges and universities. In 2002, Union Institute and University/Vermont College (UI&U/VC) welcomed the Poetry Therapy Certificate Program and was the first university in the country to offer a Ph.D. program with a specialty in poetry therapy. As [Bob] Dylan put it, "The times they are a-changing."

POH: When and how did your interest in poetry begin? Some of us have read your lovely haiku. Do you prefer this or any other poetic form?

SR: I believe I wrote a few poems as a child. It was not till I was about 18 and in a folk band that I came across a poetry book, Listen to the Warm by Rod McKuen, and I thought, Gee, I bet I could do that. So I think it was a competitive bent that motivated me to start writing. However, once I started, I was hooked. Whenever anything troubled me I was propelled by an image or line that would repeat in my mind. Even in the middle of the night, I would grab a pen and start to write. Yes, it's true that I'm especially fond of haiku. There is much poetry that I don't like. (Can a poetry therapist say this and still live?) Like Marianne Moore, "I too dislike it ... but find within it something of 'the genuine."' This is what I seek in poetry-a truth that resounds inside me.

POH: You are also a registered drama therapist. Which interest developed first? Were they related? Do you combine them in your psychotherapy work?

SR: As a child, I wanted to be an actress, singer, dancer and a princess. My first love was show business. I went to Emerson College where I studied acting and oral interpretation, and started working in film and voiceovers. During my early twenties, as I made the rounds in New York City, I also worked part-time in the senior centers. I facilitated acting and creative writing classes. I was amazed at the response of the seniors to creative writing. This soon became my favorite hour of the week. When the seniors wrote about their dreams, hopes and memories, something magical seemed to happen. Sometimes there were tears, always there was laughter. I knew this was not just recreation, but I didn't have a name for it till two years later, when I saw a flyer advertising Morris Morrison's course in Poetry Therapy at the New School.

My interest in poetry therapy and drama therapy were simultaneous. In the early '70s there were no programs in drama therapy or poetry therapy. I was fortunate to be able to create my own Master's degree in Educational Theater and Creative Arts Therapies at New York University.

To me, drama therapy and poetry therapy are two sides of the same coin. In fact, all of drama in ancient times was in poetic form. Although the drama therapy field might consider poetry therapy an aspect of itself, poetry therapy could very well consider drama therapy one of its offspring. After all, we consider all forms of the written word to be in the domain of bibliotherapy or poetry therapy. Narrative and dialogue are essential in both. Drama activates body and voice; poetry therapy activates the inner voice. Both strive for expression, containment, clarity and insight. So whether you travel to your destination by bus or train is simply a matter of preference.

I call upon whichever vehicle the client is open to experiencing. I have had clients who "hate poetry" but they are not averse to hearing a story or telling one of their own. Sometimes clients are averse to drama, but will enjoy reciting poems they have written. Playing with oral interpretation is something I have seen delight all ages, from young children to the older population. I choose whatever form will help the clients to reach their goal. Sometimes traditional talk-therapy is called for. However, even if we start with talk-therapy, somewhere in the therapeutic journey, I may say, "I hear the beginnings of a poem in what you just said. Would you like to write it?" Or "Why not write down the story you just told me and see if you can rewrite the ending?" Or I might give the person a "Rage and Whine Notebook" to record their negative thoughts so we can do some cognitive therapy and reframe them the following week.

POH: We know that you worked with Dr. Leedy and with Arleen Hynes, and that you were instrumental in developing the bibliotherapy program at St. Elizabeth's Hospital. Please tell us something about these experiences.

SR: I had the great fortune to have Nellie McCaslin as my mentor in the 1970s. She was an expert in creative dramatics and didn't know about poetry therapy, but she knew how to mentor people. She encouraged me to visit every person doing poetry therapy, interview them and sit in on a poetry therapy session if I could. This was great advice. It gave me enough chutzpah to approach Dr. Leedy, Dr. Pietropinto and Dr. Charles Crootof, who worked in New York City at the time. I visited Dr. Leedy a few times and was amazed by the criminal population that he worked with; each client had to produce a poem in order to receive his methadone! Dr. Leedy was always looking for "new blood" and hard workers for APT (The Association for Poetry Therapy). Many hours were spent volunteering, doing secretarial work and planning conferences. (Thanks, Jack for all of your pushing. You were a wonderful Noodnik!) On his urging, I once knocked on the door of millionaire David Levine who rented out Madison Square Garden for a divorce seminar. I ended up speaking about poetry therapy to thousands of people IN MADISON SQUARE GARDEN!

I networked with Arleen Hynes, who, with Ken Gorelick, was creating the poetry therapy training program at St. Elizabeth's. We were all in agreement that 440 hours was the place to begin. Although I was a consultant, I cannot take any credit for the implementation of the St. E's program. This amazing program was implemented by Sister Arleen Hynes with Dr. Ken Gorelick. However, meeting Sister Arleen Hynes led to a surprising friendship and a powerful alliance between a nun and a conservadox Jew. We were both interested in creating strong national standards in the training of poetry therapists. Together in 1981, we led a Board Meeting at the annual APT Conference where we called leaders of the poetry therapy world together to create a standards making body called The National Federation for Biblio/Poetry Therapy. At that time, the Association became a national, democratically run organization and was called The National Association for Poetry Therapy.

POH: Your long-standing course at Hofstra University has brought poetry therapy to many students; now you are on the faculty of the Union Institute/Vermont College. What are some of the hallmarks of your teaching philosophy?

SR: I teach poetry therapy through experiential workshops; students learn by doing. In peer group, each learner gets a chance to facilitate the group. In group supervision, trainees role play the conflicts they experience within their groups. We work in an atmosphere of respect where we honor each other's words, where we sharpen our ability to listen and hone our ability to respond to each other in a sensitive, caring way. Listening with three ears to each individual's experience, while listening to the needs of the entire group and balancing them is the challenge. I want people to leave their egos with their coats. I try to do the same, because ego gets in the way sometimes of being. And this is what we are after-that each person expresses his/her true and genuine self. What could be more exciting than that?

POH: Poet Stanley Kunitz was asked if he could help the public understand one thing about poetry, what it would be. He replied, "Poetry is born out of revelation to one's self of the meaning of your own life. Teachers," he said, "must express this to their students." What would your answer be?

SR: Poetry is an expression of genuine, inimitable individuality. It is as unique as a snowflake or a thumbprint. There has never been anyone like you in th~e world before and there never will be anyone like you in the world after. Poetry is a celebration of that singularity. This is only half the story; poetry is about self, but it is also about "other." Poetry offers us many ways of connecting to the larger world. When we connect with a poem, we're connecting with the poet (some call the poem a "friend") and we are no longer alone. Therefore, paradoxically, poetry is a celebration of singularity and plurality, oneness and togetherness, uniqueness and universality all at once.

POH: Who are some of the poets, teachers, therapists who influence and inspire your writing? Your teaching?

SR: I seek simplicity, directness, elegance of style, and above all a reflection of some genuine truth. I particularly like the poetry of ancient Japanese poet Izumi Shikibu, Carl Sandburg, William Stafford, Linda Pastan, Mary Oliver, Langston Hughes and Marge Piercy. I have learned the most from reading everything I could get my hands on since I was a little girl. I lived down the block from a library and would pile up as many books as I could carry. I read several books a week and then went back for more.

In the therapy world, I have admired the work of Jung, Carl Rogers, Erik Erikson, Jay Haley, Virginia Satir and Irvin Yalom.

I believe that mentors and teachers can make a great difference. Every person needs a mentor; someone who believes unequivocally in his/her talents and abilities, who helps the individual to maximize the positive aspects and minimize the weaker areas.

From 1973-1976 I was mentored by Dr. Nellie McCaslin, whose encouragement was critical in my development as a poetry therapist. Later, although she was a colleague, Sister Arleen Hynes was, and is always, an inspiration and role model to me. Jack Leedy did not really take me under his wing, but in his own inimitable way, he did push me to fly! Of course in the 70s we didn't have mentor/supervisors. Dr. Sherry Eve Penn, my blessed core at Union Institute, served as my guide in 1998-2000 and supported my poetry therapy work. I am delighted and honored to be teaching with her now at Union Institute/Vermont College. I have experienced being a student and then graduating into being a colleague. And yet, there persists in me a trace of "mentorhunger." Because no matter how old we are, or how long we've been practicing, at times we need to ask, "What do you think? Is this ok? Am I on the right track?"

We are all learning from each other; the world is full of "unofficial" mentors. I believe there's something to be learned from every person. One of my greatest sources of inspiration is working with my trainees, who are daring and sensitive and unwittingly-or wittingly -manage to teach me while I'm teaching them.

POH: Besides teaching and directing the Certificates Program for UI&U/VC, what else do you do?

SR: I divide my time between teaching, therapy and training poetry therapists. The heart of my work is done at The Creative "Righting" Center in New York, where I conduct a complete two-year poetry therapy program leading to certification and registration, and work with individuals and groups. Every year since 2000, The Creative "Righting" Center has awarded full scholarships to hospital staff members working with children and adults in the inner city. Poetry therapy has brought great blessings to my life; I want to share it with as many people as I can.

POH: In your description of your keynote, you speak of the poetry therapy journey in terms of space and geographic metaphors. Can you give us a preview of what we may anticipate?

SR: In NAPT, we are fond of W.H. Auden's lines, "In the deserts of the heart / Let the healing fountain start." The metaphor desert tells us immediately of emptiness, dryness, constriction, barrenness. Poetry offers us a constellation of geographic metaphors-deserts of emptiness, canyons of despair, rivers of tears and lush green forests of excitement. Place provides a significant indicator that immediately tells us where the person is emotionally. Poetry therapy may be compared to a journey.

But where are we going? In his essay "On the Path, Off the Trail," Gary Snyder interprets the first line of the Tao te Ching and writes: "There are paths that can be followed, and there is a path that cannot-it is not a path, it is the wilderness." Is it necessary to be lost before one is found? Is it, as editor Jennifer Bosveld's book suggests, "the poet's job to go too far?" As the guide of the poetry therapy expedition, how do we map out the journey? And in the course of going the distance, how do all roads magically lead home? Of course the story includes a magician-all poetry therapists are magicians-who is able to transform distance, time, space and energy. Stay tuned to that Florida channel.

POH: Some of us have had the pleasure of reading your book Twice Chai. When will we get a chance to read the book you wrote for your Union Graduate School doctoral dissertation?

SR: The dissertation, "A Poetry Therapy Curriculum for the Helping Professional" is available through UMI. I would love for it to be available as a text and if you know of a possible publisher, please let me know!

POH: As a past-president of NAPT and current president of the National Federation for Biblio/Poetry Therapy, you have been instrumental in formulating and executing many of the professional standards for the field of poetry therapy. What are some of your hopes and dreams for the future of the organization and the field?

SR: The National Federation for Biblio/Poetry Therapy continues to work toward establishing strong professional standards and there are 10 loyal and committed individuals who serve on the board. This organization not only sets the standards for individual training, but as poetry therapy is being adapted into university programs, the Federation is also being called on to advise them in a helping capacity. Standards continue to be of the utmost importance for our credibility as an emerging profession. My dreams are as follows:

I want to see poetry therapy accessible to persons in every major hospital, library, rehab center, school, prison, senior center and nursing home.

I want to see poetry therapy used to build and strengthen communities.

I want to see poetry used to create peace throughout the world.

That's not too much to ask, is it? LET'S DO IT.